132 - THE BOURBON ROAD: Tasting American Craft Whiskeys with Todd and Jim

Transcript

Drew H (00:14):
Welcome to a special edition of Whiskey Lore the Interviews. I'm your host, Drew Hannush, the bestselling author of Whiskey Law's Travel Guide to Experiencing American Whiskey, where I show you the ropes of distillery travel and provide profiles to over 200 distilleries in the US, as well as a listing of over a thousand distilleries to help make your distillery hunting a cinch. And this week I've got some extended bonus coverage as I share my visit to Frankfurt, Kentucky, something that happened back in March. And my friends, Todd Ritter and Jim Shannon invited me to stop in and do a little guest spot on the Bourbon Road podcast, something that I have done a few times already. And they had some really interesting whiskeys to do some tastings on, including a couple that I have been in touch with the distilleries and had not had a chance to taste their whiskey.

(01:08):
So I wanted to share this episode with you, not only because I think the whiskeys are going to be interesting for you if you are curious about say Missouri Whiskey or North Carolina whiskey, but also because Todd and Jim are great guys and I think they're awesome on their podcast. And I want to share this episode with you in case you have not experienced the bourbon road before. So let's all just kind of sit back, grab something to sip on and enjoy this special edition of Whiskey Lore. And coming up at the end of the podcast, stay tuned because I'm going to give you some details about how Thursdays are changing here at Whiskey Lore. All

Todd R (01:50):
Right, listeners, welcome back to another episode of The Bourbon Road. We're going to get crafty today and we've got a special guest with us, Jim. Who have we got with us?

Jim S (01:58):
Drew Hanish, Whiskey Lore. Welcome back to the show, Drew. This is episode number six for you, I think.

Drew H (02:03):
It is. I'm starting to feel like a regular.

Jim S (02:07):
It's always great to have you back. Your palette is second to none, and we've got some great craft whiskeys today. As usual, Todd has put together a tremendous lineup and I think we're going to have a little bit of fun.

Drew H (02:18):
Yeah, sounds good.

Todd R (02:19):
Yeah. So you want to tell the folks why you're kind of here real quick before we dive in?

Drew H (02:23):
Yeah, no, I just drove up from South Carolina and I'm going to the Beam conference tomorrow. So this'll be a first for me. And I've heard about it and I've been told I need to go to it. And I know a lot of distillers go to it, so there'll be plenty of people to shake hands with and actually meet for the first time. So that'll be fun, plus a lot of education stuff. So I'm looking forward to it.

Jim S (02:49):
Where are they holding it at this year?

Drew H (02:51):
It'll be at the University of Kentucky. It's

Jim S (02:56):
Always

Drew H (02:56):
Helpful. At the Institute. Yeah.

Jim S (02:58):
Yeah.

Drew H (02:58):
Okay.

Todd R (02:59):
Yeah. So they started that Beam Institute. Do you know about what year that started?

Drew H (03:04):
I have no idea. Yeah.

Todd R (03:06):
Some time ago.

Drew H (03:07):
Yeah.

Todd R (03:08):
And-

Drew H (03:09):
It's pretty big now.

Todd R (03:10):
Yeah, it is. Tends to lean more towards the professionals though, wouldn't you say?

Drew H (03:15):
Yeah, I don't think it's a general public would get much out of it. Probably industry people are going to ... Because they have vendors there and the vendors are trying to sell you on equipment that common person would go, "Okay, that's nice." But I don't think I need a vendome still. So we'll go from there.

Todd R (03:34):
Not as showy as the big bourbon tastings or festivals though.

Drew H (03:38):
Yeah, exactly. But it's cool to know that there is a industry program like that because in other industries that I've been in, it's a great way. The networking is the thing that to me is the best. What I usually end up with is a laundry list of things that I need to do and I go back home and I don't do any of them, but I have contacts and I have people that I've now spent some time with and feel comfortable reaching out to. So that's always the best part of it for me.

Jim S (04:08):
All right. So we're settled in here at the Corner Rickhouse in Frankfurt, home of the Frankfort Bourbon Society. Thank you, Frankford Bourbon Society, for hosting us here once again. And Todd, what are we sipping on today?

Todd R (04:20):
So we're going to travel four states today. And the first one, it's local. It's Kentucky and it's from the Old Pepper Distillery, the James E. Pepper distillery out of Lexington, Kentucky. And they were one of those that kind of started with MGP just to kind of get established. And they did, I remember seeing single barrels and they also had the, I believe the 1776 brand that was kind of high aged MGP and very, very sought after now. It's hard to find 15 year MGP and rise and bourbon. So we did a pick there recently and I really think they're one of those like hidden gems in Kentucky that's kind of starting to find their groove.

Jim S (04:58):
We picked a really good barrel there. I mean, it was really good. A

Todd R (05:01):
Lot of fun. And then they let us try like a seven year old rye that was on the barrel we were tasting off of and we were really wild with that one.

Jim S (05:08):
It was our table.

Todd R (05:09):
Yeah. It was our table. But like I said, this is their bottle and bond. So obviously it's at least four years and they have like kind of a high rye. And also I'm pretty sure they use malted rye rather than just ... Yeah. So kind of gives it a little softer mouth fill. I'm pretty sure their distiller gave us their mash bill, but I couldn't find it real that quick.

Drew H (05:30):
Interesting to note from my Bottled and Bond episode that the Bottled and Bond, the only person that has a name that you would still know that was involved at all in the Bottled and Bond Act was actually James E. Pepper. Pepper,

Todd R (05:46):
That's right.

Drew H (05:47):
Thomas Shirley was another distiller that was up there trying to push that, but nobody remembers Thomas Shirley's name because his distillery disappeared and pre-prohibition and never came back. So

Todd R (05:59):
Yeah, obviously this is 100 proof, 50% ABV. Retails for about 50, 55.

Jim S (06:05):
Yeah.

Todd R (06:05):
Yeah.

Jim S (06:05):
It's got a little bit of a nice oaky, little bit of a smoky nose. A

Drew H (06:10):
Little fruity note in there, but I can't quite pick out what it is.

Todd R (06:13):
Like rich vanilla and fruit, kind of that nice classic smell. I mean, caramel.

Jim S (06:18):
Yeah. Really nice. Now

Todd R (06:20):
The thing with them is they go in in a pretty low entry proof and I don't recall exactly what that was. I want to say maybe like 108 or so. Yeah. So depending on where this was at and what barrels they used, they probably did not have to cut it much.

Drew H (06:33):
It does have that kind of warehouse wood smell to it.

Jim S (06:38):
Yeah. I don't know the charm their barrels, but it seems to me like these are heavily charred because look at the darkness on it. And also I'm getting a little bit more of that sort of smokey oak note too.

Todd R (06:50):
Okay. But yeah, when Drew said he was coming in town, I was like, "Hey, you want to meet up? You want to be on an episode?" It's

Drew H (06:57):
Always good to come and taste with skies.

Todd R (06:59):
Cheers. I'm ready.

Drew H (07:00):
Cheers.

Jim S (07:03):
That's got a lot going on.

Drew H (07:05):
Yeah. Flavor kind

Jim S (07:07):
Of

Drew H (07:07):
Punches its milky and then get a lot of the, maybe that char, but the little rye herbaliness coming through on the finish.

Jim S (07:18):
Yeah. I'm getting it front, middle and back. It kind of dragged its boot across the front of my tongue. Wiped his feet in the middle and then took them off in the back.

Todd R (07:28):
We need a T-shirt that says that. I like a bourbon that drags its feet across my tongue.

Jim S (07:36):
That's really tasty.

Todd R (07:37):
Yeah.

Jim S (07:38):
I like that. Now, what was the price on this?

Todd R (07:41):
Like 55 bucks. Wow. Yeah.

Jim S (07:44):
That's a good deal.

Todd R (07:45):
Yeah.

Drew H (07:46):
I have to tell you, the old bottles, I love that original bottle that they had for the 1776. Still have it, emptied it out, but I keep it up on the shelf because it's a cool design.

Todd R (08:00):
They're decanter. We've had the decanter on here and it's

Jim S (08:02):
Really good.

Todd R (08:03):
It's really, really good too. Yeah.

Jim S (08:04):
I've got an old 1776 rye from them from way back when, and I didn't care for it very much. Did you not? No. And I drank a little bit out of it, but it's up on my shelf there. We can try it again someday, Todd.

Todd R (08:17):
Interesting.

Jim S (08:17):
But it's from probably

Todd R (08:20):
Years

Jim S (08:20):
Ago. You continue

Todd R (08:21):
Your MGP, so did it get maybe overly dilly or?

Jim S (08:25):
I don't remember. It's been too long since I've tasted it.

Todd R (08:28):
Say it's been sitting so long, it's probably changed a little bit

Jim S (08:30):
Too. Well, it would be almost a full bottle.

Todd R (08:33):
Oh, wow.

Jim S (08:33):
I'm sure. Yeah.

Todd R (08:35):
Yeah, that rich caramel thing's still going on here. That fruit's still there too.

Jim S (08:42):
I really like it. Yeah. Yeah. This kind of has a little bit of ... It's got a lot going on.

Drew H (08:46):
I think what's interesting about it is that it gets really rich in the middle, but then at the end it dry is right out.

Jim S (08:54):
Yeah. And you said malted rye.

Todd R (08:58):
Yeah, that's what I'm ...

Jim S (08:59):
I'm just not getting that earthiness from the malted dry that I typically get.

Todd R (09:08):
Taking a look on the glass real quick.

Jim S (09:12):
But we don't know the mash bill, so it could be 2% for all we know. Yeah.

Todd R (09:16):
Like I said, we had ... His name's Cody, and I don't remember Cody's last name. He was the master distiller and he came to our club here and presented and ...

Drew H (09:26):
It's fun that you get to taste something that's actually made at the distillery because this is, I think, probably the first time I have. Oh. Oh,

Todd R (09:35):
Really?

Drew H (09:35):
Yeah.

Todd R (09:35):
Wow. That's shocking. Because we actually met one time in that area, but we were going to barrel house. Barrel

Drew H (09:41):
House,

Todd R (09:41):
Yeah.

Jim S (09:42):
It's just nice in the back. I mean, the finish on it is pleasant. It's at a little bit of a bite to

Todd R (09:50):
It. Yeah. I think you can also tell, like I said, they go in that low entry proof. It doesn't have that kind of watered down vibe that you can get with some of those

Jim S (09:58):
Probably

Todd R (09:58):
Coming in at 120, so that's quite a percentage of water that goes in those. This one feels like, I don't know, maybe a cup or something kind of

Drew H (10:06):
Deal

Todd R (10:06):
Or however these batches are.

Drew H (10:09):
I know there's a lot of diversity in the industry in terms of ways people want to proof things down, but the more that I'm tasting stuff that is proofed down ahead of the barrel, to me, it seems to increase the flavor impact. So I almost wonder why you wouldn't do it, at least to a certain extent.

Jim S (10:29):
That extra solubility just extracts things from the barrel you don't normally get, right? Or it doesn't at a higher rate, one of the two. Yeah.

Todd R (10:36):
I also think that's one of those things you'll start to see. I don't know. I feel like a lot of your craft places do lower entry proofs. You think Michter's and obviously Alan Bishop, he's always kind of kind of a low entry proof and I'm sure that'll be the case once his old hermitage-

Drew H (10:54):
I think the best way to test it, if you're curious about it is do the Michter's tour because they let you taste it with a higher entry proof and with the lower entry proof. Oh, that's neat. And you can taste the difference. It is definitely ...

Jim S (11:09):
Yeah. And I mean, the only reason for going to a higher entry proof is accountants. I mean, right? I mean, let's be honest. I mean, if you're all about the flavor, I think everybody ... All the master distillers would agree that a low entry proof is better.

Drew H (11:25):
Yeah. Yeah. What's interesting is when I was doing my research and trying to look in the 1850s and '60s about how they were shipping whiskey around. Well, they had shifted to, of course, rail came along, so you're not on the river now. You have the ability to get stuff there much quicker. So all of a sudden, Buffalo, New York became the center of distilling. They were making high proof whiskeys called high wines. And the reason they did that was they could put it in at an extremely high proof, ship it out in that barrel quickly to wherever it went, and then a rectifier would take it and would water it down to whatever the proof was. But it was a way of concentrating the whiskey to get it to wherever it was going to go. And it's one of those things we hear about rectifiers and all the horrible things they did.

(12:18):
But what I found in my research was that it was actually more ... Sometimes it was just for the ability to save some money on freight, get it out there, and then you're just adding water to it once it gets to wherever it's going. And the other part of that is that not everybody wanted a long-proof whiskey. There was a lot more drinking white whiskey and

(12:42):
That sort of thing. So it's very interesting to see that.

Jim S (12:48):
All right. Well, that was very pleasant, Todd. That's a good start. Good start. And I'm always impressed with them lately. Really, really am.

Todd R (12:57):
Yeah, agreed. All right. So let's move on to pour two.

Jim S (13:00):
Yeah. And

Todd R (13:01):
This is from 1832 distilling. They're based in Concordia, Missouri. It's what they call a soil to sip operation, founded by a local farmer named John Lang and a Marine veteran named Nicholas Virus. That's kind of an interesting last name. The distillery is named after the year Freedom Township was established, the very township where they grow 100% of the grain used in their spirits. So this is a 100% wheat whiskey.

Jim S (13:29):
Okay.

Todd R (13:30):
Predominantly soft red winter wheat grown on the co-owner's family farm and Freedom Township. Does say its age ... And I just got a general thing, because like I said, it was really hard to find information on this. And shout out to my friend, Adam Dorman, who I just met up with him this past week and he brought me this bottle. They had stopped in there on their way to Kentucky and he thought I really enjoy this. So he brought me a

Jim S (13:54):
Bottle

Todd R (13:54):
Of Cheers Adam. So it's aged in new charred Missouri white oak barrels. It says minimum of two, but this is a single barrel and it's pretty dark.

Jim S (14:04):
It is dark. Can you turn the bottle just a little bit?

Drew H (14:07):
Or if they put it in the sun.

Jim S (14:08):
It's extremely dark.

Todd R (14:09):
Yeah. I mean, we've got some really dark stuff here today. Well, we won't get into it, but pour three is really dark too. But you said the MSRP on this single barrel was $45 too.

Jim S (14:20):
There you go. Okay. Yeah. So what's the age on it? Did you-

Todd R (14:25):
It doesn't say, but I mean, like I said-

Jim S (14:28):
So

Todd R (14:28):
What's the

Jim S (14:28):
Label say?

Todd R (14:30):
It says ... Oh, there we go. 56 months old. So four and

Drew H (14:34):
A half, right?

Todd R (14:35):
Four and a half

Drew H (14:35):
Years. Yeah.

Todd R (14:36):
Four and a half.

Drew H (14:37):
All right. That makes more sense with the color.

Todd R (14:38):
Well, I looked and looked and there it is right down the liver. 54.1%, so 108.2.

Drew H (14:45):
Okay. So

Jim S (14:47):
Four and a half year old wheat whiskey out of Missouri.

Todd R (14:50):
Concordia Missouri.

Jim S (14:51):
Concordia, Missouri. Very dark. Oh,

Drew H (14:57):
This is an oak lovers.

Todd R (14:58):
Yeah,

Drew H (14:58):
This has got some whiskey.

Todd R (15:00):
Makes me think maybe smaller barrels since it's got such intense openness. Possibly. There's like some stewed fruits and honey.

Jim S (15:10):
I love it. Yeah. You nailed it, Todd. I think so. I mean,

Todd R (15:13):
There's a little graininess to it, but it's not unpleasant.

Jim S (15:17):
Yeah.

Todd R (15:18):
But the nose is really kind of dark and rich.

Jim S (15:22):
Yeah. The fruits are dark. I guess they are stewed.

Todd R (15:26):
Stewed. I like it. You're the one that came up with that one. There's like a cotton candy thing I'm getting too, which is- I was even

Drew H (15:35):
Like sassafras.

Todd R (15:36):
Sazeras. Okay. I was thinking apple butter. Or strawberries? A little bit of strawberry compote kind of thing.

Jim S (15:43):
Yep. I was thinking, I don't know if you heard me, I said plum butter.

Todd R (15:47):
Plum butter?

Jim S (15:49):
And I've never had it, but I've had apple butter, but I was thinking it's darker than that. So maybe it's ...

Drew H (15:54):
Yeah. Yeah, I can see the plum. Sounds

Todd R (15:55):
Like something we used to say back in the day, but they would say plum butter. These plum butter and you are butter. But plum butter, I like it.

Jim S (16:04):
Got a great nose. I like it. I'm just getting ready to get set on fire because I think this is going to be hot.

Todd R (16:10):
I previewed it. We'll see. Okay. Cheers.

Jim S (16:12):
Cheers.

Drew H (16:15):
I'm just getting a banana in there.

Jim S (16:17):
It's actually really good.

Todd R (16:19):
It is.

Jim S (16:19):
There is a little bit of fire.

Todd R (16:21):
There's a little warm for that 108. Yes. Yeah. Are you yellow or kind of like a green banana kind of thing, like under ripe or not quite ripe? Yeah. I can see that.

Drew H (16:33):
Yeah. A

Jim S (16:34):
Little buttery.

Drew H (16:35):
You said juicy fruit before and now it's just stuck in my head.

Jim S (16:39):
That's a really good whiskey. Yeah. It's interesting. I love things that are like take you by surprise just a little bit.

Drew H (16:49):
And you said it's 100% wheat. So is it malted wheat? Do we know?

Todd R (16:54):
It didn't say.

Drew H (16:55):
Okay. It's really interesting. A

Todd R (16:57):
Little bit of

Jim S (16:58):
Spice to it.

Todd R (16:59):
Yeah. There's like a spicy gumdrop kind of jam on the end. I love being surprised like this though. When we had the wood hat, that was out of the blue.

Jim S (17:13):
Yeah, it's very- And

Todd R (17:14):
Once again, a friend introduced us to that, so that's fun.

Jim S (17:17):
Pretty buttery, oily, streaking my glass.

Todd R (17:21):
Yeah.

Jim S (17:21):
Seriously, streaking my glass.

Todd R (17:23):
I think that sasurfrast is kind of getting that on the tail end a little bit. Almost like a beer. Sassafras root beer kind of ad. One might even say sorghum, a

Drew H (17:34):
Little bit of sorghum. Maybe, yeah. Really interesting because I don't have a lot of experience with 100% wheat whiskeys. And I find that they usually tend to do better with the barrel for some time. And this one's obviously had some time to work itself out with the barrel.

Jim S (17:52):
Really settles in in the back and just gives you that warm, spicy ...

Drew H (18:00):
I get an earthiness on the nose that just makes me almost visualize where this barrel was left in a corner somewhere and a wet damp corner. I

Jim S (18:11):
Wonder if these are 53 gallon barrels. I tend to feel like they're smaller barrels.

Todd R (18:15):
As dark as it is, I feel like maybe it's what is the 30s, maybe just a little smaller.

Drew H (18:21):
Rather than either that or they left it outside.

Todd R (18:25):
At 56 months, if it was one of those 15s, I feel like it would be even darker though, Missouri maybe. I don't know. But yeah, fun pour.

Jim S (18:31):
Yeah. Really good.

Todd R (18:33):
Oh, but back to my ... Do you guys think with some of these smaller distilleries doing the lower entry proof, I mean, the big guys are looking for new marketing things, obviously. And I almost feel like you're going to start seeing some lower ... I mean, I know Buffalo Trace has played around with that with those single oat projects and their experimental thing, the experimental collection and things like that, but ...

Drew H (18:57):
Requires more barrels. So barrel supply would probably be the question for the big guys is if

Jim S (19:03):
They- Yeah. At the end of the day, it's all about cost of production. So the bigger your operation, the more you're looking ... Or the more accountants you have looking at the cost of production. Yeah, exactly.

Todd R (19:12):
But I think the thing I see also is like, well, I mean, LTOs are hot. If like Heaven Hill and Jim Beam all come out with some sort of, just says low entry proof and then it has the name of the Rick house. Well, you've got liquid gold. I

Drew H (19:25):
Mean, because

Todd R (19:27):
That's another thing you're starting to ... Another trend you're starting to see is, well, they're emphasizing what Rick house that comes from. I mean, it's always been a wild turkey thing, but now you're starting to see the beam, that latest series we have with the Owl and the Beaver.

Jim S (19:43):
The Beaver and

Todd R (19:43):
The- And then you've got Jack Daniels touting Canyon Hill and Coy Hill. Right.

Jim S (19:48):
Yeah.

Todd R (19:49):
It's coming. I mean, well, Warehouse Hi Buffalo Trace. Well, that's where all blands come from.

Drew H (19:55):
Well, what I love about that is it is a nod to the fact that these warehouses may not all be made of the same construction. They may have a certain personality to them. I mean, that's what you learn when you go on the Buffalo Trace tour

Jim S (20:08):
Is

Drew H (20:08):
Really how all of these are constructed with different materials. And so they age things completely differently. But what I loved was holiday and the way he described it, and basically what he was doing was he was grabbing barrels from different parts of the warehouse. And if he's grabbing a lot from the upper floors, then you would get one flavor versus if they were coming from the lower floor. So you could actually pick up a bottle and if you sort of knew the personality of which ones are getting aged more aggressively versus which ones aren't. And it's something that you like, you want a more oak, you find the ones that are aged up at the top instead of the ones that were aged lower down. So I mean, this was the thing I really loved, like Chattanooga whiskey, every little detail they're putting on the bottle, maybe the average consumer doesn't care, but I think people who are really interested in flavor and exploring find it interesting.

Jim S (21:06):
I love good labels. I love labels with a lot of detail on them, but yeah, I'm not everybody. And I think the three of us are probably very similar. We like that kind of stuff. Yeah.

Todd R (21:15):
I mean, the more I know about it, yeah, it's great. Your

Jim S (21:18):
Average

Todd R (21:18):
Consumer sound is great about it. Yeah.

Jim S (21:21):
I don't know what their new labeling ... I'm trying to remember. Well, we haven't

Todd R (21:25):
Seen the discovery, but he said it was going to be a little different too, but I mean, I guess it'll be ... Discovery 14 will be coming out some point soon. All right. Hey, good first half.

Jim S (21:35):
Great first half. Two really interesting whiskeys. Both of them, very pleasant. And I'm going to reserve my comments for the end, but both great.

Todd R (21:45):
Yeah, good start. So our good friend, Pete Barger at Southern Spirits was kind enough to send their newest limited release. This one can be found there at the distillery at Southern Star. And then probably North Carolina, that area. I mean, it is a limited release. This one comes in a 375. It's their straight bourbon whiskey finished in Zinfandel Casco. And that's not the Franzia white zinc.

Drew H (22:14):
This looks like Coca-Cola.

Todd R (22:16):
With the color we're looking at here, it definitely was not the white Zenfandel version. This was the full on red Zinfandel. And I couldn't find any information on whose Zinfandel barrels they use, but I mean, definitely the darkest pour we have. We've kind of got ours set on our little pore mats with pour one, two, three, and four. Yeah,

Jim S (22:34):
I think Drew said it looked like Cola,

Drew H (22:36):
Right?

Jim S (22:37):
Yeah,

Drew H (22:37):
It does. And it's cast strength, so that's probably adding to the color.

Todd R (22:40):
So clocks in at 54% ABV, 108 proof, like I said, 375 milliliter, 49.95. It said it starts with their Paragon wheated bourbon, but it doesn't mention that this is their weeded, so I don't ...

Jim S (22:56):
Okay.

Todd R (22:57):
But I think they may have had an earlier iteration. So I'm going to say this might just be their straight bourbon. And it's finished in the Zenfandel cast for over about a year. Wow. Yeah. So that might be where that very robust burnt amber kind of color is coming from.

Jim S (23:15):
Yeah. Great nose on it.

Todd R (23:17):
Not super

Jim S (23:19):
Red,

Todd R (23:19):
Whiny, yeah.

Jim S (23:20):
No, but it's got a nice ... It's a sugary nose and a little fruity.

Todd R (23:28):
I was more into wine. I used to do some wine tastings at the store. Zinfandels were probably my favorite red. I know and cabs, some good hearty cabs, but I really liked the zins were really could get really jammy and dark.

Jim S (23:41):
It's not hit my nose like 108. No? No.

Drew H (23:44):
It's kind of, I don't want to say it's muted, but there's nothing jumping out at me on it.

Jim S (23:50):
It's almost like it's a little hard. It's hiding itself just a little bit. Maybe if a drop of water in this might let it blossom, but ...

Todd R (23:59):
Yeah, I'm getting some berry notes, maybe some overwrite raspberry type thing. But yeah, it's kind of hard to pull something out of there. Yeah. All right. I'm ready to sip. Cheers. Cheers.

Jim S (24:10):
Cheers. It's concentrated. Flavor's concentrated.

Drew H (24:16):
Yeah. Ooh, there's some interesting stuff going on.

Todd R (24:18):
Agreed. I'm getting like, this obviously went into that wine barrel. I feel like there's a little bit of that wine barrel, not necessarily the Zinfandel note, but it's like the wine barrel note itself.

Drew H (24:31):
Yeah, like a little tannin note. Yeah. I was getting a little chocolate with the fruit.

Todd R (24:36):
Definitely some chocolate. Yeah.

Jim S (24:38):
You mean like the French oat coming across it? Not

Todd R (24:40):
Necessarily fringe oak, but just like they empty that wine barrel and then through this in there and there's just like, I don't know, almost like a wine cellar kind of vibe, not like damp or dark, but like-

Drew H (24:51):
There's no American oak to me in this. Yeah. I think that's what's kind of tossed me off the mark a little bit, is that it's the vanillas, the caramels, they're not really present there. The wine is kind of ...

Jim S (25:03):
There's a little prelean to it though, a

Drew H (25:07):
Little more on the grape side.

Jim S (25:10):
Those hot buttered prelims that you get at the fair when you walk around with them.

Todd R (25:15):
But yeah, I can't get away from that almost like ... It's almost like if you took your finger after they dumped this out of that wine barrel and then put your finger on that barrel or inside that barrel and kind of rubbed along there and then licked that residue. Does that make sense? It's not off-putting. I like it. No.

Drew H (25:35):
I know. I'm trying to figure out how to describe it. This is sometimes my issue is that when I approach something brand new, it's like the card catalog in my brain does not have anything to reference. So I go, "I don't know. I don't know what that is. "

Jim S (25:53):
Yeah. For me, I'm getting the French oak kind of impressions off of it. Okay. I mentioned sort of like the warm prelims before, but it's a little cognacy a little bit.

Drew H (26:07):
Yeah. The thing is, I had a Benromic single malt scotch that was aged with a wine barrel and the wine barrel took it over and it basically was like drinking that wine. I read the description on the wine and I'm going, "Well, those are my tasting notes." And that kind of feels like what happened here, that barrel really consumed the experience.

Jim S (26:33):
Yeah. I could be convinced that this is not a bourbon in a way. This might be something else. This might be an experimental-

Drew H (26:45):
Great brandy.

Jim S (26:46):
Great brandy, a cognac, a grappa, something that's been played with.

Drew H (26:51):
Yeah. This would be a nice bridge whiskey to get into brandy's, I would say.

Jim S (26:57):
I think so. Yeah.

Todd R (26:58):
Yeah. That's also one finish here. I mean, we're starting to see a few more. I mean, we just recently had the Moscotel finish with True Story, their bourbon is Moscatel finish, which was really, really unique. I think Bardstown's done a few collabs with, was it Silver Oak, so big Cabernet. So it's kind of one of those that ... I don't know. It's definitely not a popular finish for these to try, but I think they're always looking for the new thing too. Well,

Jim S (27:32):
This is definitely something different, unexpected.

Drew H (27:38):
I mean, it's a nice drinker, but I think if somebody came into it thinking that they're about to drink something very bourbonesque, they're going to be surprised.

Todd R (27:47):
Right. Yeah, definitely.

Drew H (27:50):
Yeah.

Todd R (27:51):
Cleanse a palate here after that one.

Jim S (27:52):
Yeah, definitely need to. That could be after dinner drink.

Todd R (27:56):
Yeah. And it might pair really well with a cigar.

Jim S (28:00):
I think it probably would. Yeah. I think it's great. It's great at the end of a meal. I think it would be good with a cigar. I think sipping in a brandy sniffer might actually not be a bad idea for this.

Drew H (28:12):
Or have a fruit tart or something with it. Yeah.

Todd R (28:15):
All right. So our last one is from Bell of Dayton out of obviously Dayton, Ohio. And this is one of their Dietrich fine whiskeys. This is their foolproof single barrel bourbon. Bell of Dayton is located in the Oregon District, which kind of threw me off. It's family owned craft distillery founded by brothers Mike Murphy and Tim LaCell. The brand blends local history with world-class discelling techniques. So this is Potstilled.

Jim S (28:46):
Okay.

Drew H (28:47):
And it's interesting because as I talked to him not too long ago to Mike, and he was talking about ... Of course, they picked the name Bella Dayton. That I guess is associated with an older brand, but so is the Dietrich.

Jim S (29:03):
And

Drew H (29:03):
Actually, once they released that Dietrich, they got contacted by a member of the Dietrich family who said, "Oh, it's so cool you're bringing that back." Oh, that's cool. And Mike said he was nervous at first because he thought, "Oh God, what are they going to ask for? " I'm using their name, but no, they were just really happy to see the brand come back.

Todd R (29:26):
Yeah. So back to that Bella Dayton, where that kind of came from, it says, "The story goes that while renovating a basement in downtown Dayton, a 100 euro pre-prohibition liquor bottle was discovered with the words Bella Dayton etched into the glass."

Drew H (29:39):
Okay.

Todd R (29:41):
And then like you said, the Dietrich Fine Whiskeys line is named after the Dietrich Distilling Company. And was it Fred? Do you remember?

Drew H (29:49):
I don't remember. Yeah.

Todd R (29:51):
Which was in production 1884 to 1919. It was one of those that was pretty much killed by prohibition. There's so many of those It did back in the day. And this is a five grain. So you got corn oats, rye, wheat and malted barley, but I couldn't find any specific mash bills. They pot sill it in a 350 gallon copper still aged in 53 gallon barrels and hand toasted number four char white oak barrels and MSRPs, 97, 99. And this is eight and a half years old.

Drew H (30:25):
I was going to say, this definitely has some ... We have a common theme tonight. Yeah. The wood is taking over. The

Jim S (30:31):
Wood is taking over.

Todd R (30:33):
They also offer a small batch. You can find this at Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, but they also ship to 40 plus states. And shout out again. I mean, it's a very whiskey friends episode. My friend Jeff Wack from Hello Again, Whiskey Friends bought the YouTube channel was kind enough to ... He actually let me try one of these some time ago and came across another one and grabbed this bottle for us.

Jim S (30:56):
Fantastic. Yeah.

Drew H (30:58):
It's really interesting because the rye, I get an orange peel note with it.

Jim S (31:04):
Yeah, there's a freshness to the nose. And it is interesting.

Drew H (31:08):
I love the

Jim S (31:08):
Orange

Drew H (31:08):
Pill.

Todd R (31:09):
Shout out. That's great.

Jim S (31:10):
A little candy-like. But it's fresh and it's got a ...

Todd R (31:15):
And the funny thing is we've not really had a sweet, anything super sweet. I mean-

Drew H (31:19):
Not really. I'd say the middle of that old pepper was-

Todd R (31:23):
Maybe

Drew H (31:23):
Not as close. Everything else has

Todd R (31:25):
Been a little on the-

Drew H (31:26):
Dry side. Yeah.

Todd R (31:27):
Dryer side and make berries.

Drew H (31:30):
Yeah. Again, the barrel, the warehouse, it's like you feel like you've just walked in and you're looking through the barrels to figure out which one you're going to tap into.

Jim S (31:39):
Yeah. And if I saw this bottle on a shelf, I mean, it's a great label. It's a great bottle. I love that bottle. It's very, very traditional. Great color.

Drew H (31:48):
Yeah.

Jim S (31:48):
Great color to this whiskey.

Drew H (31:51):
As the Nelson Brothers said about their label that they brought back, their great-grandfather's label. The best thing about finding an old label is that you save a lot of marketing, but they're really cool. The thing is though, if you see this on the shelf, it's definitely one of those brands that you would have to kind of get to know

Jim S (32:11):
Because

Drew H (32:11):
It's not overly easy to read. I guess in the 1800s, they weren't as worried about you picking out the name on the shelf as they were, that you're probably buying something local that you already know. But it's a beautiful

Jim S (32:24):
Bottle. It is beautiful.

Drew H (32:25):
Yeah.

Todd R (32:25):
I'd be curious to know what the old Didrick ... I'll have to do some digging, see what the old Dietrich bottles used to look like. As well as the Bell of Dayton, it's kind of intrigued now.

Drew H (32:33):
Well, you got Bella Nelson right behind you. That's

Todd R (32:35):
Right. I do. There were a lot of bells.

Drew H (32:38):
We lost the bells. I was going

Todd R (32:39):
To say, there were a lot of bells

Drew H (32:40):
Back then. We lost the bells, but there was a bell of Chattanooga at

Todd R (32:43):
One time. I believe there was a Bella Bardstown.

Drew H (32:46):
Yeah. Oh,

Todd R (32:47):
You already sipped, dn't you? Cheers. Sorry. Catching up. Yeah.

Jim S (32:51):
I couldn't help myself. I had to follow that nose.

Todd R (32:54):
Oh, I don't think I mentioned this one. The particular proof is like 123.2.

Jim S (32:59):
Yeah. This sits well as a high proof whiskey. It's nice. This is actually nice.

Drew H (33:04):
Nice balanced notes. The oats, I don't really expect to get flavor out of oats. Usually it's mouthful, but I sort of taste a little of that.

Todd R (33:13):
I could see

Drew H (33:13):
Like a cinnamon oatmeal

Todd R (33:14):
Kind of thing.

Jim S (33:17):
There you

Drew H (33:17):
Go. Yeah. Really interesting. There you go with the coated glass again.

Jim S (33:22):
It's a great whiskey. A little bit higher price on this one.

Todd R (33:25):
Yeah. Yeah. It's good. I was like another one. It's so fun to run across these and you're like, "Who?" And then you try them and you're

Drew H (33:33):
Like, "Wow." Almost a little black tea on that too at the end. It's really interesting because it's, as you say, there's not a lot of sweet going through here. And on the palate, this does not go sweet at all either. I don't know that necessarily the rye is standing out to me, but it definitely has darker notes to it.

Jim S (33:53):
Yeah. I'm getting the oak and the barrel on the back a little bit, not so much. The spiciness of the rye is not really hit me there. This is sitting mid-palate. This continues to sting the middle of my tongue just a little bit.

Drew H (34:07):
Again, probably another cigar whiskey. Yeah. I think the oats give it just enough of a mouthfeel to ...

Todd R (34:13):
Soften it just a little. Yeah.

Drew H (34:15):
Yeah. A little colder note on that too.

Jim S (34:17):
Well, I feel like when we do our rankings at the end of this, our winter, winter, chicken dinner, I think that there's enough variety here where it's going to be a matter of preference.

Todd R (34:26):
For sure.

Jim S (34:28):
They're all good whiskeys in their own way.

Todd R (34:30):
Yeah. I'm still going to orange peel a little bit too.

Jim S (34:33):
Yeah.

Todd R (34:34):
I think the interesting thing about this one is being pot stilled. I was expecting even softer and it's still got a little pizazz, if you will. You know what I'm saying?

Drew H (34:43):
Yeah. Be interesting to know how deep they go. I'm

Todd R (34:46):
Having Jim's face. He's really intrigued by this one.

Jim S (34:48):
Yeah, I am. I am. I'm looking at the four bottles. I'm thinking in my mind now I'm going to rake them while I'm drinking the Dietrich.

Drew H (35:00):
I have a winner myself. Yeah,

Todd R (35:03):
But we have to start at four and work our way up.

Drew H (35:07):
Okay. All right.

Todd R (35:09):
I got to try. Let's see. I'm going to go back to- We can do that. So you

Drew H (35:13):
Could go read that. All right.

Todd R (35:14):
Little bit of water. Yeah, a little bit of

Drew H (35:16):
Water.That's a good idea actually because it is easy to kind of forget. I think my

Todd R (35:21):
One and two is the one I'm debating. I think I have three and four.

Drew H (35:25):
Ooh, I'm getting raspberry on number one now.

Todd R (35:28):
Are you?

Drew H (35:28):
Yeah. Interesting. It's funny how you taste one thing and go to another and something else pops out.

Todd R (35:35):
That is ...

Drew H (35:37):
Yeah.

Todd R (35:37):
How you order them sometimes is really

Drew H (35:39):
Interesting. Yeah. Ooh. It may have actually just challenged which one I'm going to choose because I was pretty set, but that was my number two that I just tasted and it's fighting for number one. I don't think it's going to win though.

Jim S (35:55):
Okay.

Todd R (35:57):
I think I'm ready.

Drew H (35:58):
Okay.

Jim S (35:58):
I'm ready. I think I've got it. It's

Todd R (36:01):
Got his game face on.

Jim S (36:02):
Yeah.

Todd R (36:02):
All right. I'll start. Okay. Number four today is going to be the Southern star. Not a bad poor. Like I said, if I had a cigar, which I'm not a huge cigar guy, but I think that might work really well with it. And it had some good stuff going on, but just didn't shine today like the other three to me.

Jim S (36:20):
Yeah. So I'm going to follow suit there. I think it's good for what it is, but I think they, in my opinion, it was taken a little too far.

Drew H (36:31):
Yeah. I

Jim S (36:32):
Don't know, for me.

Drew H (36:35):
I agree. I mean, the thing about it is that I could see that being a bottle that grows on me. If it's sitting in my shelf and I'm in a mood and I realize, oh yeah, I'm not ready for a brandy. I'm really not in the mood for a bourbon. Let's do something right in between. That's probably what I would pick

Jim S (36:53):
Up. It's got its place on your shelf.

Drew H (36:55):
It's a nice whiskey. It just doesn't really remind me of a whiskey.

Jim S (36:59):
But when it sits among four bottles in a tasting, it kind of is an outlier.

Drew H (37:04):
It gets tough. Yeah.

Todd R (37:05):
Yeah. Yeah. Kind of gets lost. Let's just keep the same orders. That sound good? Yeah. All right. My number three is going to be the old pepper bottle and bon. Okay. I think it's super solid. I really like what they're doing. I love doing the pick there. I think the pick we did is ... I'd like to see how it showed up if we had thrown in here, but we had the bottle of bon in hand, but it's going to be my number three.

Jim S (37:27):
Okay. Well, I'm actually going to go with the 1832. Ooh,

Todd R (37:30):
Okay.

Jim S (37:30):
And the reason for that is as I went back and retasted, the 1832 dropped a notch and the pepper actually elevated a notch. I actually had them the other way around.

Drew H (37:42):
Ah,

Jim S (37:43):
Okay. But that's what happens when you go back and revisit things. And I did take water in between each sip.

Drew H (37:49):
Okay.

Jim S (37:50):
Great.

Drew H (37:50):
I guess I'm the tiebreaker

Jim S (37:52):
Because

Drew H (37:52):
I'm going the 1832.

Jim S (37:54):
Okay. Okay.

Drew H (37:54):
And the reason for me is that it is a lot more on the oak side and I'm not necessarily a fan of ... It was probably the oakiest of all of them. And that's probably the main thing. Again, a nice drinker, impressive for what the whiskey is and small distillery. And I'm assuming they're pot still distilling probably. I'm not sure. I

Todd R (38:17):
Don't think

Drew H (38:17):
I saw that,

Todd R (38:17):
But we can check on that. Yeah,

Drew H (38:19):
For sure. Yeah. But I mean, good whiskey. I just, like I say, it's probably against the two that are ahead of it. It's oakier and that's the thing that's probably setting it apart for me. Yeah.

Todd R (38:31):
Okay. Well, my number two is actually going to be that 1832. I just thought it was a fun surprise and I enjoyed it. Although I get that whole thing, I'm kind of still sipping on those. And when you go back to something after following something up, it has kind of changed a little bit. So I could probably ... The two and three would be ...

Drew H (38:50):
Interchangeable.

Todd R (38:51):
Interchangeable. As the kids say, six, seven things.

Jim S (38:56):
And while bouncing between these and tasting each of them, I mentioned that the 1830s toot sort of dropped a notch on the ladder and then the pepper elevated and the pepper elevated with this wonderful fruity note that just sort of surprised me. It had something the others didn't. So it kind of grabbed the number two spot for

Drew H (39:15):
Me. Yeah. Okay.

Jim S (39:16):
True? Well,

Drew H (39:17):
It almost got number one because when I went back and tasted it, that fruity note just really hit me. My memory of it in tasting it the first time though was that it kind of started in one direction, got really expressive in the middle with sweetness and then dried out on the end. And I'm sure there are times, there are certain whiskeys I have that make that kind of rollercoaster move that I like, but I know if I'm going to have something I'm going to purchase and put on the shelf, I'm going to want something that is much more balanced throughout. So that's my number two.

Jim S (39:53):
Pepper's a fine whiskey. Yes. It's really good whiskey.

Drew H (39:55):
It

Jim S (39:55):
Got close. But it's not winter, winter, chicken dinner. Yeah. No,

Todd R (39:58):
But it sounds like we're unanimous on that. Yeah,

Jim S (40:00):
I

Todd R (40:01):
Think so. That goes to the bell of Dayton. Fine whiskey, straight brevin whiskey out of Dayton, Ohio.

Jim S (40:08):
No, it's the priceiest bottle too, right? To be fair. Yeah.

Todd R (40:11):
And the proofiest.

Jim S (40:12):
And the

Todd R (40:12):
Proofiest.

Drew H (40:13):
Yeah.

Todd R (40:14):
You say Drew's not a big proof guy. I'm not a proof guy. I actually kind of surprised.

Drew H (40:17):
Yeah. But if you do a proof right, I think the fact that it was made on a pot still and however they do their cuts, it's just a really nice balance of flavors. And that's the main thing for me is that it feels like a whiskey that I should pour when I have my mind clear and I can just sit down and really kind of pick out all the different flavors in

Jim S (40:42):
It. I like the way he says that. So it's a moment when the whiskey needs to be the center of your attention, right? Yes. Yeah. And I kind of agree with you on that. That's why we

Todd R (40:48):
Bring him on when he's in town.

Jim S (40:50):
He

Todd R (40:51):
Brings his A game.

Jim S (40:52):
He does. He does. Brings the history,

Todd R (40:53):
Brings the smarts, brings the voice.

Jim S (40:56):
Yeah, the detriment was great, but I'll be honest with you, I'm looking for a bottle of that bottle and bond pepper because that was surprisingly good. Yeah. Nice. And you mentioned, Drew, that it could have been almost running for first place.

Drew H (41:09):
Yeah, it was very close. I mean, well, it was the second taste. And that's the thing is that it is really hard to taste something in isolation. And being the first whiskey that you taste, it's like that it kind of puts it at a disadvantage. So going back to taste it again, boosted it up a bit for you.

Jim S (41:27):
All great whiskeys. Todd, would you do our guests a little bit of a favor here and sort of go through the lineup and talk about what they are and what their bottle price point was?

Todd R (41:36):
Yeah. So we started off with the old pepper, bottled and blind, and it ran, I believe, what'd I say? $60?

Jim S (41:42):
$60, yeah.

Todd R (41:44):
Followed that up with the 1832 distilling Missouri straight wheat whiskey, which came in at about 108.2 proof. And according to Adam, it was about $45, which

Jim S (41:55):
Great price. That's crazy. Still a great whiskey. Still good whiskey.

Todd R (41:58):
Yeah. That was followed up with the Southern Star Limited Series. This was their straight bourbon whiskey finished in Zinfandel Cask. That was a 375, unlike the others. And I believe I'd say 45 bucks for that. So actually that's about $90 if you double it up. So it's actually pretty close to our, well, our winter today, and that's the Bella Dayton, Dietrich Whiskey, straight bourbon whiskey. This happens to be a single barrel. Like I said, they do do a small batch and this one clocked in 123.2 proof. This was bottle 129 of 191 and it was about eight and a half years old and ...

Jim S (42:34):
I'd say an exceptional whiskey. Very good. Delicious.

Todd R (42:37):
Like I said, Jeff Wack introduced me this. Actually, it was kind of fun. Their little Patreon group, they sent out some blind ... He sends out four pores, I believe, kind of a holiday blind and everybody enters their answers in and proof questions and what it is and things like that. And that was the first time I got introduced that. And I was like, "Holy heck." I thought it was one of the big boys. I just thought it was so good.

Jim S (43:02):
Yeah.

Drew H (43:02):
The thing is, you mentioned to me, I didn't really pay attention. I see foolproof on the back and I'm reading it, but I'm not thinking it. And you're right, I don't usually like stuff that's high proof, but this does not drink highproof at all. And that's what threw me off about it is that, I mean, for that Hyatt proof, it's not burning the pallet. It's not aggressive on the flavors. It's just nice balance.

Todd R (43:24):
It is one of those that you can ... I may not mention it. It's kind of like everybody else, you can find it in a few states, but you can also order directly from them, I believe. So definitely one to ...

Jim S (43:36):
From Ohio.

Todd R (43:37):
Yeah. From Ohio.

Drew H (43:38):
Well, they got a lot of distilleries, 45 plus distilleries. But it's a

Jim S (43:41):
Control state, but they can ship out of state.

Todd R (43:44):
That's what I saw.

Jim S (43:45):
Okay. Yeah. Well, I guess the laws are so weird out

Todd R (43:48):
There. Who

Jim S (43:49):
Knows? Who knows?

Todd R (43:51):
Well, I mean, you think of Middle West. So I've had friends that have done picks from Middle West and those usually go through ... You get their stuff from Sillbox.

Jim S (44:01):
Pumper Nickel Rye. Yeah,

Todd R (44:03):
Pumper

Jim S (44:03):
Nickel Rye. Todd, another great show. Four great bottles. Yeah, great. Great guest. You really knocked it out of the park this time, my friend. I

Todd R (44:12):
Was going to say, it's going to

Jim S (44:13):
Be hard to top.

Drew H (44:15):
Well, thanks for having me on. I appreciate driving up here today. It's nice to kind of relax and chat with you guys and sip on some whiskey. All

Jim S (44:23):
Right. Definitely check Drew out. He's writing some good stuff. Should be the book in your console in your car as you're driving around visiting those distilleries, no doubt.

Todd R (44:32):
That's right. It's taking the place of the old fold out or the big ... Was it random now the Alice thing? Yeah. You don't need a trip tick anymore. You just

Drew H (44:40):
Need

Todd R (44:40):
Whiskey Lawyer. You don't need MapQuest. You get Whiskey Lawyer. That's right.

Drew H (44:44):
But Whiskey Triptick, you've given me some ideas. There you go.

Todd R (44:50):
Well, you can find the bourbon road on all social media outlets. You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, threads. We do all those things every single week. Jim and I will drop an episode every Wednesday, so make sure you hit that subscribe button so that you don't miss an episode. Sometimes we'll have a guest on like Drew. Sometimes we'll just sit around reviewing whiskeys. Today was both of those. Sometimes we'll have a distillery in to talk about their products. But one thing is we're always having a lot of fun. You can also check out the bourbonroad.com where you can buy our merch. The best way to find us is the Facebook group, the Bourbon Roadies. We've got over 3,200 people in there. There's distillers. There's Drew's on there and people always sharing stuff, what they're drinking. It's a fun group where people just get together and have fun and talk about what they're drinking and celebrate things.

(45:39):
So until next time, we'll see you down the Bourbon Road.

Drew H (45:43):
And thanks again to Todd and Jim for having me on the Bourbon Road podcast. Check them out, make sure to subscribe to them. And as for me, I'm about to give you a whole lot of content for your ears. For a while, I've been trading back and forth between history, travel, and interviews. Well, starting Monday, enjoy the story of America's most notorious liquor dispensary system, one that actually had its own police force and prepared to hear history stories and interviews each Monday going forward. It has for whiskey flights and my deep dive interviews, those will be coming to Thursdays. That's right. Two Whiskey Lore episodes each week. And next Thursday, I'll be traveling to Asheville, North Carolina to get the scoop on malting. Make sure you subscribe to the Whiskey Lore podcast so you don't miss a moment. And until next week, Cheers and Slange Va.

(46:33):
Whiskey Lore's a production of Travel Fuels Life, LLC.